Curse

Xx Monk Hunter Xx · Jul 21, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

OK, so this is a petition to get rid of a maximum number of minions that a necromancer can control without killing one in order to summon a new one.

(NOTE: this dosnt include increasing number of flesh golems u can control, only the non-elite minions)

the reason: this will not really over-power the necromancer, because lets say u actually get up to 30 minions without having the first 10 or w\e deadd or dying by then, if u use blood of the master to keep ur 30 or so minions alive, either the skill itself will kill u, or a monster will kill you because you'd be down to like 80 hp or somthing.

if people do not agree that the limit needs to be gotten rid of, maybe just an increase in the max? cause 10 minions kinda isnt enough for some places.

AW Lore · Jul 21, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

not signed.

minion masters are still very powerful, 10 are more than enough.

Quote:

cause 10 minions kinda isnt enough for some places.

even though MMs are very useful to finish missions, they are not a must, i henchied all the way through with several different characters without a MM.

the limit of the minions was set up due to alliance battles/fort aspenwood.

during the FPE minion masters there could practically summon and summon and summon minions well over the 20s without even bothering to heal them.

Sparticus Meridus · Jul 21, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Yeah but why the cap? Stop Capping and nerfing everything. Minions, AOE, it's getting rediculous

Undivine · Jul 21, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

They just introduced the cap. Why would they take it away all of a sudden? And for the record, there are other ways to heal minions besides Blood of the Master.

Ristaron · Jul 21, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I agree. Let everyone be overpowered rather than everyone being underpowered. These are ASCENDED characters we're talking about... you know... gods? Demigods at least.
This is a clash of the Titans, not some talented nobodies fighting each other for control of a hill.
Quit nerfing things that don't matter and start attacking the over abused aspects of the game *coughtouchnecroscoughbotscough*

Honestly, minions are easily destroyed by AoE, but instead of allowing people to realize this - you go and nerf them both beforehand, making us more vulnerable to the cookie-cutter and less-skillful builds (l33t mending-on-me wammos, touch necros, etc). Step back and realize that good players can't set the bar high enough when you keep nerfing those builds that take talent and practice. This just leads to people using [sometimes genius] combinations that make the build good enough that they don't have to have any skill.

Just FYI: one on one I can take out any of the wammos or touch necros (or any other cookie-cutter build user) who falls under that category (provided we start off with full health and energy...), it's just when you have ten of them at a time in any given situation, it gets rediculous.

Jin Of Stealth · Jul 21, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparticus Meridus

Yeah but why the cap? Stop Capping and nerfing everything. Minions, AOE, it's getting rediculous

I have to admit, AoE is when they went wrong. AoE's are useless in PvE and in PvP all they have to do is move outta the way.

Minions is fine I guess, I don't mind actually controlling a max of 10, cuz it is pretty hard to maintain them. I have a lvl 18 MM which can control 8. It's pretty tough controlling 8 bone fiends. I think people are complaining about minion group size is because they use the cheapy factory skills like bone minions, horrors, and golems. They're the 3 MM skills that are easy to regain the energy back and make more. It only costs 15 energy, which is pretty low for a MM, but it is pretty balanced. The only reason they capped the MM is because they were mass producing minions beyond even try to face all of them.

Jin Of Stealth · Jul 21, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparticus Meridus

Yeah but why the cap? Stop Capping and nerfing everything. Minions, AOE, it's getting rediculous

I have to admit, AoE is when they went wrong. AoE's are useless in PvE and in PvP all they have to do is move outta the way.

Minions is fine I guess, I don't mind actually controlling a max of 10, cuz it is pretty hard to maintain them. I have a lvl 18 MM which can control 8. It's pretty tough controlling 8 bone fiends. I think people are complaining about minion group size is because they use the cheapy factory skills like bone minions, horrors, and golems. They're the 3 MM skills that are easy to regain the energy back and make more. It only costs 15 energy, which is pretty low for a MM, but it is pretty balanced. The only reason they capped the MM is because they were mass producing minions beyond even try to face all of them.

/not signed

CagedinSanity · Jul 21, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

This is why I'd much prefer to use Blood necros instead, more damage and offensiveness that way.

Xx Monk Hunter Xx · Jul 21, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jin Of Stealth

I have to admit, AoE is when they went wrong. AoE's are useless in PvE and in PvP all they have to do is move outta the way.

Minions is fine I guess, I don't mind actually controlling a max of 10, cuz it is pretty hard to maintain them. I have a lvl 18 MM which can control 8. It's pretty tough controlling 8 bone fiends. I think people are complaining about minion group size is because they use the cheapy factory skills like bone minions, horrors, and golems. They're the 3 MM skills that are easy to regain the energy back and make more. It only costs 15 energy, which is pretty low for a MM, but it is pretty balanced. The only reason they capped the MM is because they were mass producing minions beyond even try to face all of them.

Im a levl 18 MM with levl 18 minions (gettin golem as we speak) and i have no trouble keeping all my minions alive (until they at like -10 hp per sec degen) and i use: Horrors, Feinds, and Vampiric's so only only with 15 energy cost other 2 are 25 energy (off topic: i hate bone minions) so i dont really understand what ur talkin about by sayin they hard to keep alive, the only thing that screws my minions over is like meteor shower cause they to stupid to run away.

Sirix Leai · Jul 21, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Speaking from a PvE point of view as I never played MM in PvP Im fine with a 10 minion cap. May miss the amusing days of massive minion army of 50 or so minions running around wailing on things but the minion cap was for the good I feel. Just makes you think of better ways to utalize what minions you have, like buffing a golem and watching it stand and take even more damage from more enemies and dish out even more. My only lingering complaint about MM is the lack of ability to command your minions effectively.

Tristan the Impure · Jul 21, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

It's not about that. The point is that this is a game. How can you have a human who can summon bone horrors from dead bodies, but he can only have 10? He can rain fire and meteors down from the sky or lava bubble up all around him, but the AI knows what happening somehow and runs away? It's retarded. And ANET is so concerned with nerfing stupid stuff and controlling ppl cursing, that they let cookie-cutter losers ruin the game with touch necros and IWAY and all these crappy lame builds. Not to mention the bots that are ruining the economy.

fallot · Jul 21, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan the Impure

but the AI knows what happening somehow and runs away?

Yes, the AI somehow knows what is happening. That's its job.

Vilaptca · Jul 21, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I'm guessing none of you played in the Alliance battles against a MM during the Faction preview events....

Seriously, want to see how powerful a MM without the cap really was...

fiery · Jul 21, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

The limit is here to stay.

Flopjack · Jul 21, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Area of Effect was not nerfed so bad. The NPCs merely do what any player with half a brain stem would do in the first place. Even then, I see many many players stand in the blunt of an AOE Fire Spell, either because they don't notice it, the damage doesn't concern them, or something else is more important at that time. And as a part time nuker, I can say there are PLENTY of times in which NPCs stand in the AOE for the full extent. Of course, when your skill bar is something along the lines of: Breath of Fire, Firestorm, Searing Heat, Teinai's Heat, Meteor Shower and Fireball, where can they stand without getting burned?

In PvE, I think a minion cap was fair. It was becoming a little nuts to have 1 MM deal as much damage as the party, creating a big enough meat shield nothing could get through it. However, in PvP, I don't think MMs should be capped. If a Necromancer wants to spend all their time, skills and mana conjuring up a small army, let them. It makes Elementalists all the more valuable. Though I like that this game is mostly about team work. Sometimes it is fun to see two huge forces just duke it out, weather that is 1 MM controlling 30 minions vs 10 warriors, people vs people or any combo of the two, even with NPCs in the fray.

Cataclysm · Jul 21, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

As a MM, I must say that setting a limit was not so bad. Nerfing Veratas was.

The 10 Minion Limit is fine in PvP because otherwise we'd get armies of Oro Farming proportions in AB and Aspenwood. However, I dont like the 10 minion limit in PvE. The ability to solo almost any area was part of the reason I loved MM so much.

/half signed. Keep limit for PvP, but do away with it for PvE. Unnerf Veratas Sacrifice

The Hand Of Death · Jul 21, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

I play MM at times, and I personally like the limit. It gives me something to work for in building the army and some point to stay at. With the new minion thiefs in AB it is hard to control 10 minions as it is so why complain about a cap that is seldom going to be reached. If the other team doesnt have a minion thief then there is something wrong...

In PvE same thing, it gives me something to work for. I would always get discouraged when minions died when I sorrow farmed with 30 or so minion. I say keep it the way it is.

For the AoE nerf I liked that. Like it was said earlier, anyone with half a brain moves out from under AoE why shouldn't monsters. In a way it made AoE have a new role. While those monsters are moving from under the AoE what are they doing? or not doing? They are dealing damage to you or casting spells. That is the way I look at it. When I had a my necros secondary profession as elementalist I brought lava font with me because it got the monsters to stop attacking me... and I was to lazy to move.

AoE has a use. Like I say in a lot of posts, I think Anet made the ritualist to bring a use back to AoE. And if you see cluttered areas like saltspray battles on the bridge is a perfect place for AoE because there is normally a lot of enemies in a small area to AoE, and warriors normally don't move from under it if their target is still there. Don't always think of using AoE as a offensive move, maybe sometimes you should think of using it as a defensive move instead.

Minion cap is fine, keep it.

Priest Of Sin · Jul 21, 2006, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Well, at the beginning of the MM Nerf I would've agreed with the original poster. However, I just changed my tactics. For example:

BEFORE NERF: I was the unstoppable juggernaut, kill all, turn them into my undead slaves, but as soon as I died my team was SoL.

AFTER NERF: Now, I am a support class. It is no longer about the power of minions, but the DISTRACTION of minions. Ele bosses? They love to pound on my flesh golem. This makes it easier on the monks because they don't have to heal it. And when it dies, I simply raise another one.

It took some getting used to, but i'm just as useful now as I was then.

/notsigned

lishi · Jul 21, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

dude MM before nerf on pve was overpowered.

how?

check thirsty river.

a MM can SOLO the mission.

he can make enough firepower and absorb enough damage to beat alone a mission who was made for 6...

and dont say to me a wammo can beat the mission as well.

the wammo solo use the trick to lure 2 group togher to fight. the MM way is just kill them all

Evilsod · Jul 22, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

I'm guessing none of you played in the Alliance battles against a MM during the Faction preview events....

Seriously, want to see how powerful a MM without the cap really was...

Want to see how easily countered they are? The necro itself has counters for its own ****ing build! You could potentially wipe out every single minion in the army with 1 Ray Of Judgement, would they let us? No they nerfed the whole thing to stop people whining about it. At least make the Minion cap into 1 Minion each level on Death, giving you a max of 16 and making each point actually count for something. Maybe alter BotM to be 2% each minion. And of course bring back Veratis Sacrifice from the pit of uselessness, did they actually think before nerfing that skill or are they just braindead RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOwits trying to create a second Otughys Cry(?).